As promised, we have found Ken’s masterful research study concerning the bloodlines out-of Llewelyn Fawr and you can Joanna
Only ‘Ellen’s’ label remains a secret, here is apparently zero-you to entitled Ellen or Helen, except perhaps an enthusiastic ‘Eleanor’ for the Joanna’s front (Eleanor out-of Aquitaine, mom away from Joanna’s dad Queen John)
Hi, visitors. It is its fascinating; the things i wouldn’t possess made available to gain access to this short article twenty-5 years before when i is researching and you may writing Right here Become Dragons!
The main intent behind which exercising is to use, of the a glance at genealogist’s feedback about the subject and also by contacting particular identified fresh sources, to determine who was simply the mother out-of Gwladus Ddu ferch Llywelyn. Is she Joanna, partner from Llywelyn ab Iorwerth (Joan Plantagenet: Produced circa.1188, died. February 1237) or try she Tangwystl ferch Llyarch from Rhos, mistress away from Llywelyn, produced circa. 1168, passed away??
I will follow this having a secondary data into you can easily lives of a beneficial ded Susanna, offered over to King Henry https://brightwomen.net/fi/turkkilaisen-naiset/ 111 while the an excellent hostage within the 1228 together with her infant custody getting provided to help you Sir Nicholas Verdun along with his wife Clementia.
Brand new feedback of your own Genealogists that i keeps learnt are just you to definitely, viewpoints, and differ significantly. No specific facts is available in either case, but have to say that the majority keep having Gwladus is the new daughter off Joanna. This is also true of the genealogists of your own descendants out-of the fresh new De- Braose family, nonetheless they ily to get linked with both the Welsh and you can English regal houses!
The ensuing list off Llywelyn’s multiple genuine and you will illegitimate people looks as basically approved by the all of the genealogists that i keeps examined with the exception of differences more whether #9 really lived. This new times out of birth down the page are also disputed by some:
- Gruffudd ap Llywelyn, born circa.1199, died 1244
- Gwladys Ddu ferch Llywelyn, produced circa.1206, died 1251
- Ellen (Helen, Elen) ferch Llywelyn, created circa 1206? passed away circa 1253,
- Margred (Margaret) ferch Llywelyn, produced circa 1208? passed away circa 1263,
- Dafydd ap Llywelyn, Prince off Wales, created circa 1208 (1211?) (second thoughts about this date, get a hold of later), passed away 25 February 1246,
- Gwenllian ferch Llywelyn, produced circa 1209 passed away 1281.
- Angharad ferch Llywelyn, created circa 1210, passed away 1257
- Tegwared ap Llywelyn – produced circa 1210, you can easily dual so you can Angharad?
- ‘Helen’, otherwise ‘Susanna’, produced circa 1214? Died 1259?
There is much dispute across the identity of parents of these types of youngsters. You will find general agreement that simply specific children off Llywelyn’s age Prince regarding Wales and you will Ellen (Helen) who hitched (1) John the fresh new Scot, child of the earl of Chester and you will (2) Robert de- Quincy. Regardless if advice is separated across the moms and dads regarding Gwladus, Gwenllian, Margred and you can Susanna, most of the genealogists I have learnt lean into the the mom being Joanna.
It is partially with their going times out-of beginning due to the fact really since their marriages to different marcher lords just who, one to supposes, might have looked for so you’re able to align their homes to that particular of its neighbour, new Prince out of North Wales along with his partner, the fresh queen off England’s child. It’s believed that such lords of the February would not have seen much focus or governmental inspiration during the marrying off the sons into illegitimate daughters off a beneficial Welsh prince which have an excellent Welsh woman.
As to what labels of those pupils, if of the Joanna, Tangwystl otherwise anybody else, these were all the entitled immediately after people in Llywelyn’s family unit members:
Ken, we have been totally on your debt
Llywelyn’s mom was entitled ‘ed ‘Susanna’ of Gwynedd. His paternal granny are called ‘Gwladus’. The mother and father out-of his granny Susanna, was ‘Gruffudd’ ap Cynan and you may ‘Angharad’ away from Flint and you may one another the names were given in order to Llywelyn’s pupils. So it Susanna as well as had a sis titled ‘Gwenllian’, a similar label as the Llywelyn’s great grandmother.
Alle blog berichten